On tanking, mages, and why rogues should die in fires

I know Ais has already apologized for the lack of updates, but I’m going to throw in another apology from myself. The past few months have been fairly hectic in that “real life” thing I occasionally indulge in: interviewing for new jobs, having a relationship end (and on the day before Valentine’s Day, too, which is good because I hadn’t met my dramatic irony quota that month), and generally trying to get more organized and focused. I’m doing pretty well now, though, and can invest more energy in projects like this site.

In game, I’ve been spending a lot more time on my tanks: my 80 prot warrior and my 80 prot paladin. Maybe it’s just making up for years of being squishy, but I love standing in front of bosses and protecting my raid. There’s still a lot of pressure in tanking: blowing your cooldowns at the right moment, making sure you’re positioning the mobs in the best possible way (I like to face them towards Ais’s boyfriend so he gets cleaved), and pushing buttons frantically to stay on top of the DPS who are just dying to rip aggro off of you. (Okay, the paladin tanking isn’t so much frenzied button pushing as lazily hitting them in order. I love my pally but warrior tanking is much more interesting and dynamic.) And yet, I don’t feel as stressed while tanking: no one’s going to spam Recount after a battle and point out how I did compared to everyone else. I can focus on being a member of a team, and working with everyone to achieve a certain goal. It’s a nice change of pace from DPSing on my mage, where I’m almost secretly hoping a rogue stands in fire and dies so I’ll beat him on the charts. I’m more than happy to give up ten-man raiding on my mage in favor of doing it on one of my shield-wearing girls.

But I do love my mage, and ICC has gotten better for Ais and me lately. I think the ranged DPS in our raid have really started working together to point out how we can make the fights a bit easier on us, and we’re beginning to function as a team. Tensions were high for a while, but I think our melee have finally realized that it’s not that half our raid is bad, it’s that the fights and our strategies for them were vastly favoring their playstyle. We’ve adapted some strategies, aired our frustrations, and I think we’re back to being a fairly laidback, happy group. (Until I watch someone keyboard turning to run out of Sindragosa’s death-grip, that is. RAGE.)

Enough about what I’ve been up to. Here’s a few of my thoughts about mage raiding in ICC:
1) Incanter’s Absorption is still worth it if you can get shielded reliably. In my raid, we’ve done crazy things where I’ll get fed shields on Rotface while I’m standing in the slime to DPS. The numbers I put out are nuts, but it just seems so gimmicky and stupid. I am actually looking forward to the nerf: too many mage mechanics are already dependent on very particular and often dumb things (Torment the Weak, I’m looking at you), and IA has always felt cheap to me. Is it fun to get shielded and watch your spellpower shoot up? Sure. But I don’t like sucking up to a disc priest and then standing in fire just to do more damage. (Note: this is no longer relevant after 3.3.3: IA is not nearly as valuable as it was since it only procs off of your own frost/fire ward and mana shield.)

2) Once you get two piece mage T10, your rotation may change slightly. The top DPS rotation still is stacking Arcane Blast to four and then using Arcane Missiles when Missile Barrage procs. However, the haste boost from consuming MBAM means that your less mana-intensive rotations aren’t that far off from the highest DPS rotation. If mana is a problem for you, don’t feel bad about using MBAM when it procs after the second, third, or fourth AB.

3) Four piece mage T10 is the most ridiculously awesome set bonus in the world. Other set bonuses look at mage T10 and weep, for they will never be so amazing. It’s especially fun when we do our weekly raid quests in Naxx and have a fight that lasts only 45 seconds—you just can’t touch a mage who blows Quad Core, Arcane Power, Icy Veins, and trinket(s), and who doesn’t have to worry about mana. I am actually really surprised it hasn’t been nerfed yet.

3) Yes, we’ve heard about proposed fire changes. I think that with the IA nerf, the combustion change (down to two minutes from three, thank goodness), pyroblast now benefitting from TtW, and the Glyph of Fireball change (instead of 5% crit, the cast time on fireball is reduced by .15 seconds), fire might be more in-line with arcane mages. Maybe. Arcane gives you controlled burst and amazing single-target DPS, which are both crucial in ICC encounters. Fire does well with multiple targets, but so far that’s only Gunship. (Dreamwalker has lots of adds, but they need to be burst down quickly and a lot of them won’t be up long enough for living bomb to explode.) But we’ll see: I know Ais is itching to get back to blowing stuff up with fireballs.

4) I hate trinkets so much. So very much. I lucked out and got a Muradin’s on my first ICC 10 run, but my guild has seen exactly one Reign drop in our TOC runs. Another one dropped on a pug Ais and I were in, and it went to a warlock in our guild—who then picked up the first (and only) DFO we’ve seen. I was trying to move away from the years-long feud between mages and warlocks and instead unite ourselves against rogues and DKs, but, man. *shakes fist at our warlock guildmate* I just know I’m going to be using Talisman of Resurgence until Cataclysm. (Of course, that’s not the worst of it: if I want to go back to fire for a boss fight, Rawr tells me I should use Dying Curse. *twitch* I’ll stay arcane, thanks.) Trinkets can suck my non-existent junk.

But, all in all, WoW has been treating me well lately. I love that Ais and I got Starcaller on our alts (especially since, uh, I might have been drunk at the time); I managed to get a Blood Queen’s Crimson Choker in my Sack of Frosty Treasures, which netted me quite a nice chunk of change; and we’re working on getting another mage friend of ours a Tiny Voodoo Mask trinket so we can do a voodoo gnome parade with -wait for it- 24 voodoo gnomes. (We’ll be glyphing for mirror image, of course.) Ais and I have done it with just the two of us and I will say that 14 pygmy gnomes RP walking through Dalaran will turn heads. I highly recommend it. I’m meeting new people, having fun goofing off on alts, and raiding doesn’t feel quite so tedious lately.

I hope our mage readers are faring well! How is Icecrown treating you?

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Posted by Metaneira March 16th, 2010 Magecraft, Neat Stuff, Rant, Thoughts

7 Comments to On tanking, mages, and why rogues should die in fires

  • djones0823 says:

    In regards to the T10 2set bonus and rotations. Whilst it’s true that 4AB->Procced AM is still the highest dps rotation on fights like festergut, when you approach 1000 haste(which is doable in 10man gear, let alone 25man) you’ll find that the dps between the different rotations narrows to single digits and particularly on any reasonably heavy movement fight, sindragosa for instance, using missiles the moment they proc is actually reasonably superior. Our tier set -is- amazing, and I will not happily let it go come cataclysm.

    In regards to trinkets, I’m a 10man strict raider and i have access to precisely 1 good trinket, the spyglass. The heroic version doesn’t even stack >.<. However you'll find the abyssal rune is higher dps than the talisman of resurgence. Abyssal has approximately a 21% uptime, so that's equivalent to 123 permanent spellpower. In comparison the talisman can only have an uptime of 16.66% at most, which equates to 99 spellpower. Then of course you have 84 haste compared to 128intellect. Ignoring the mana 128 int brings you another 22 spellpower so you're looking at 123SP+84haste Verses 121spellpower and 3k mana or so. In ICC gear and using considerably more mana efficient rotations you should have zero mana problems so the mana on the talisman is irrelevant.

    I'm looking forward to both the frost and fire changes, I am currently rocking my standard arcane spec (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#of0icz0IzLGurtedcZbhf0o:NziV0m) and a frost tanking spec for BPC(which is the most fun I've had in ages) but for the heroic version we will be switching to a real tank, which means I can get back to having two pewpewing specs…will be good to try out fire again.

    I also am looking forward to the nerf on IA, I don't raid with a disc priest, I'll still have the talent after the nerf as there are plenty of fights in which our wards will proc IA, and since the only real talent choices for it instead are more mana, or spirit(yeah right).

    Right now my 10man strict group is sitting on Arthas, trying to kill him. Down to 35% at the moment, so we're getting there. I'm sitting in my BiS gear until we down Arthas too which is a really nice feeling, the first time I've ever been in such a position and it feels great to be pumping out 8k.

  • dragonray says:

    I am so jealous of you guys being in tier 10 and you making me want to cry :)

    We are yet to down Professor, or Dreamwalker, but we may have them down sometime in the next week, if we are lucky :)

    ICC is treating me ok, I got my third piece of gear in there last night, from marrowgar, and am almost close enough to get two tier 10 pieces with the badges, maybe another 2/3 weeks and I will be there!

    Real life just gets in the way and eats at your time to raid :(
    .-= dragonray´s last blog ..Never thought I would say this =-.

  • The Magette says:

    I myself am having a lot fun in ICC – the fights are challenging and I enjoy a lot of the mechanics. My 10 man team sounds a bit similar to yours – “Melee stack up over here and just rip into the boss for the next 10 minutes, ranged – your job is to spread out, dodge shit, kill/kite adds, oh and try not to catch that ridiculous paper gown you call armor on fire mmk?” It’s frustrating at times, especially at the end of the fight the rogue gets to gloat at his 8.5k and the shadow priest, warlock, and I all get to bicker about how someone took a Fleshbeast to the face.

    I am currently raiding Fire, and have been for a while now. Even the buff to Arcane a while back couldn’t tempt me to go back. I could not spend 4 nights a week being a two-button spammer. I raided Frost back in BC and so perhaps it’s just that I like to be in with the minority who knows. But I love that it’s so involved, always keeping up your rotation, and 25k fireball crits don’t hurt either. Of course, there are downs – less mobile, way more squishy, and too many crits in a row means I’m face tanking and ain’t no Invis gonna save me from a dirt nap. But it’s the thrill of danger that we raid, right? Or is it the shiny purples? I can’t remember anymore…

  • logoskaieros says:

    I”m having trouble logging in with my wordpress account, but I wanted to say:

    1) Super excited that I found this blog

    2) Super excited to start earning my T10 gear (although my guild prob won’t be in ICC for another month maybe)

    3) I don’t understand the IA hate. It’s a gamble (spellpower but you may die/lose too much mana if you’re crazy and use mana shield) Gambling is fun! (Especially if you’re an arc mage with our not-so-complex rotation.) It gives me a reason to run around (well, blink around) and interact with the environment.

  • Kolz says:

    I’m actually the raid leader of my guild (which is a job you don’t want, btw), and we’re doing okay. In ICC10, we’re up to the lich king. We’ve only really had 3-4 hours trying him due to scheduling issues and dedicated 25m raid times, and we had alot of wipes to just sloppy mistakes that shouldn’t have happened… our record so far was 30%, and that was with our feral standing at the edge at the start of p2 and getting owned the first valk LOL.

    25m We’re up to sindragosa, but whether it’s our realm or what I don’t know, over the past two weeks we’ve had insane DC/lag issues (6+ people DCing on boss pull) and haven’t even been able to clear farm bosses so far. It’s amazingly frustrating, but what can you do?

    I’d just like to go on a little rant here for a minute. Everyone talks about how good our 2pce is, but here’s the thing about the 2pce, while it’s a great damage boost and casting faster is fun, it also lowers the gap between good and bad arcane mages. In toc when I first specced arcane, I prided myself on proper mana useage. I always aimed to end the fight exactly oom, so I would spam ABs alot to get the most out of my mana pool. With this 2pce, the damage gains are so negligible from spamming AB over abx4->am rotation that it’s not even worth the risk, in case you need to fish for missile barrage later on, your evocation gets interrupted or whatever. And just somewhat on this note – I feel the talisman of resurgance is overrated wildly by most arcane mages. While I don’t have the math to back this up on hand, once you get 2pce t10 I don’t think anyone is really going to be making use of the actual mana gains from this trinket, which are part of what made it better than stuff like eye of the broodmother and abyssal rune.

    Also (wow this is just about a blog post on its own), I’m really looking forward to going fire again tomorrow. I have been playing fire in raiding since molten core, and I only respecced arcane in toc because it was so wildly overpowered… there’s no doubt arcanes superior swapping ability is very useful in alot of fights (deathwhisper, saurfang, PP, valithria), but the aoe from fire comes in handy on… well lootship heh heh, but more importantly I think the living bomb spam will be very good for vile spirits on lich king, and molten fury kicking in for most p3 will be nice too. The single target damage in appropriate gear should be quite close, especially with IA so nerfed.

    Also, Aislinana, I’d like to know the story behind this please :P

    16:49 ChanServ – [MLG|Shrew`] I like my men stacked in the back
    .-= Kolz´s last blog ..Wizard Cleave Woes =-.

  • juniperphoenix says:

    I am just commenting to say how much I love the phrase “Sack of Frosty Treasures.” :D

  • Jayn says:

    “DPS who are just dying to rip aggro off of you”

    Pun intended? :P

    Yeah, a bit late but I just found this place. Anyways, I know how you feel WRT tanking. When I met my husband, I wound up dumping my mage for my druid, and eventually went through all three specs with her. As a result I now have little respect for anyone who can’t manage their aggro on either side of the equation (well, healers get a bit of a break). At one point, a jerk mage in the guild made a comment about not re-sheeping once someone broke CC and letting the person get beat on. I made a reply about remembering that next time he pulled aggro (He did great DPS, for about 3 seconds) and lo and behold, next pull he got aggro off me and died. Most satisfying mage death ever–until Fizzlebang, anyways.

    (And on a side note, arcane can bite me. I’m frost foreva, baby!)

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