Trinkets yes, pretty trinkets!

Haven’t been posting much — as Ais said, the holidays and some real-life issues have interfered. (All good things, though!) But it’s a new year and we’ve got some questions to field. All of these are about the piece of gear that frustrates me the most: trinkets.

I’m an arcane mage currently running with Illustration of the Dragon Soul and Abyssal Rune. Should I replace one of them with the Talisman of Resurgence?

The short answer to this is yes. Yes, yes, yes. Nearly every single arcane mage should have Talisman of Resurgence: the only exceptions are if you have some combination of Reign of the Dead/Unliving (heroic or regular – you can use both), Dislodged Foreign Object (ew), Muradin’s Spyglass, or Flare of the Heavens. You can use Rawr to figure out what would be the best combination for you, but for the majority of arcane mages, we’re gonna have Talisman of Resurgence in one of those spots. Getting the badges is easy: if you don’t have one yet, farm heroics until you have the 50 Triumph needed to pick it up. In this case, Abyssal + Talisman of Resurgence is the best combo of those three. Keep in mind that Abyssal Rune is a random spellpower proc, which means it could go off as you’re moving out of fire or right before you need to kite Anub’s spikes. I still think that even with inopportune procs it’s a better choice, simply because the passive haste is so good for arcane. Good news is, Abyssal Rune is pretty easy to get: it drops from regular ToC5.

How does the Talisman of Resurgence compare to the stacking haste from Talisman of Volatile Power?
Well… the Talisman of Volatile Power is a concentrated piece of crap. Let’s just assume you’re an arcane mage. The passive bonus on the trinket is critical strike rating, which is the worst caster stat available to arcane mages right now (aside from int and spirit — and even then it’s only about a .3 DPS scaling difference between crit and int). At first glance, the haste bonus looks nice: it increases your rating by 57 each cast, which is 1.7% casting speed increase. (Casting speed is not the same as cast time, mind.) Not too shabby! Where it falls apart is the 20 second duration of the effect. Let’s assume that you have 600 haste rating and are specced for Netherwind Presence. Your AB cast time is 2.01 seconds. You pop your trinket; the next cast is 1.98, then 1.95, then 1.93. As a player, you’re not going to notice the two to three hundreths of a second cast difference, but even tiny differences do add up. But the effect only lasts 20 seconds: it’ll take you over 15 to stack it to eight (assuming perfect execution and no lag). You’ll get maybe two to three casts with the full effect. The DPS increase from this trinket is just so teeny, even stacking it with other cooldowns.

It’s … it’s just not very good. Sundial of the Exiled is much better, even for an arcane mage. Forge Ember, a blue trinket from HoS, is better. I’ll say it again: if you don’t have Talisman of Resurgence, grind the badges and get it.

But, Meta, why is Muradin’s Spyglass good if it has all that crit?
Yeah, yeah, crit isn’t very good for arcane casters. However, the secondary effect of that trinket is a stacking spellpower buff. You can’t charge it up before combat (mages with Illustration could cast a couple of spells (Slow Fall or AE) before the fight began), but you’ll be running with 180 spellpower for the majority of the fight. Fire mages will especially delight in this trinket, as the ticks from Living Bomb will maintain the stack.

Unlike Reign of the Dead/Unliving, the heroic and non-heroic versions of this trinket (and Dislodged Foreign Object) cannot be used together. (This is per the 3.3 patch notes: “Icecrown Citadel Items: Normal and Heroic versions of Icecrown Citadel rings and trinkets are considered Unique-Equipped and cannot be used at the same time.”)

How do I weigh a proc versus a static bonus?
The short answer is that the average player doesn’t do this: you let someone else do the math and tell you whether an item is good or not. If, say, Nibelung drops and you have never seen the item before, you’re probably not going to be able to tell if the item is an upgrade for you. Even items with their proc spelled out, like Dislodged Foreign Object, are confusing: most players can tell it’s good, but they can’t tell you how good. Is it better than Reign? Is it better than heroic Reign? (The answer: I believe so.) And so the average player must do research before fights to find out what drops from what boss and then cross-reference those pieces of gear with math from trusted sources to see if it’s an improvement. Tools like Rawr help, but it takes a while for the procs to be accurately calculated and added in: Dislodged Foreign Object has yet to be modeled in the 2.3.5 release of Rawr. Blizzard seems to recognize the difficulty in eyeballing gear: we have multiple stats to juggle, procs that require a chunk of math to evaluate, and then just mind-bogglingly big numbers (think: a single weapon from Icecrown has more spellpower on it than my mage did total when I was doing Black Temple). Until Cataclysm fixes it (heh), most of us are left relying on others to do the mathy stuff for us.

That’s it for now, but if you have any mage questions, please feel free to ask either in comments, via Twitter (@empoweredfire), or shoot us an e-mail at empoweredfire AT gmail DOT com.

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Posted by Metaneira January 8th, 2010 Gear

34 Comments to Trinkets yes, pretty trinkets!

  • Aislinana says:

    It should be noted that Talisman of Resurgence has +INT on it, and therefore, gives you more mana.

    *ducks*

  • Arioch says:

    I would rock Nibelung just for the proc. I would make it work, that thing is awesome.

    And that is roughly where I think Blizz is trying to go with some of the new pieces, making them interesting without sacrificing too much functionality.
    Arioch´s last blog ..WoW: The Numbers My ComLuv Profile

  • djones0823 says:

    Was wondering where you got the info regarding the equipability of the heroic/normal spyglass versions.
    They have different item IDs and different proc IDs and as such would seem to be seperately equipable just like the reign of the dead/unliving. Wondering what blue post I missed or something

    • Metaneira says:

      3.3 Patch Notes! I’ll edit the entry to make that clear:
      “Icecrown Citadel Items: Normal and Heroic versions of Icecrown Citadel rings and trinkets are considered Unique-Equipped and cannot be used at the same time.”

  • Probata says:

    Excellent, thanks for rocking the numbers Beth! And Nibelung + Dislodged Foreign Object = dead Probabta of happiness. ~Someday~

  • Celticlullaby says:

    Wait a sec, what about the eye of the broodmother? It’s like a lesser spyglass…how does the value of it compare?

    And the nevermelting ice crystal…not worth it for arcane, amirite? Would it be nicer for fire?

    Thank you for figuring all this out for us! I *loathe* trying to compare trinkets.

    • Metaneira says:

      Friiiiig, forgot about Ice Crystal. It’s not very good: even as fire, Talisman is better.

      EotB is decent. Illustration is better; Abyssal is better. For arcane, anyway. I have some of the worst luck with trinkets (and no hope of seeing a Reign until Cataclysm comes out, srsly), so I keep EotB to use when I’m fire or FFB.

      • Arioch says:

        Per RAWR, when I had the IotDS, the EotBM, and the ToR it had me go with Illustration/Talisman.
        Added the Abyssal Rune and ended up with ToR/AR.
        Got the 10-man Spyglass and now have ToR/MS.

        That is of course, with RAWR considering all my other gear in conjunction with trinket selection.
        Arioch´s last blog ..WoW: The Numbers My ComLuv Profile

  • Lys says:

    Ra-aark!

    Running with the ToR/Spyglass combo is working out pretty well for my dps so far so I’m glad I ditched the rune. Despite the horribad name Dislodged Foreign Object is what I really really want, too bad my chances of getting it are low as hell.

  • Cari says:

    Sooooo. If I have Talisman of Resurgence & Illustration of the Dragon Soul… should I be replacing Illustration with Abyssal for more haste? Barring the ICC upgrades, of course. I’m at 632 haste right now.

    • Metaneira says:

      You should really use Rawr to check the best combination of trinkets — the level of your other gear (particularly your spellpower and haste) will make a difference. For me, Talisman of Resurgence + Abyssal > Talisman + IotDS.

      Not that I ever got a damn IotDS. Trinkets and me are not friends.

      • Cari says:

        Oh okay, that’s really interesting. Never used Rawr before–I’ll have to try it. I’m sorry you never got the Illustration!!

  • Gravity says:

    off-topic: 1) I need a “recent comments” sidebar so I can follow conversations here, 2) where’s the pic of you two pretty little things?
    Gravity´s last blog ..Dual-wield, weapon speed and expertise My ComLuv Profile

  • Gravity says:

    I found the best for my purposes is:
    Get Recent Comments, from Krischan Jodies

    Get some pics up too!

  • Jeth says:

    Very interesting article…I was running around with SotE and ToR when another Arcane mage said I should dump ToR and get AR (for DPS purposes). So, ToR sits in my bags….Question: ToR is a “Use” trinket: How, and in what context, should it be used…part of a macro? and if so, could you provide and example…

    Thanks, and great site you have here.

    • Metaneira says:

      Yep, you line it up with other cooldowns. My ZOMGPOW macro is this:
      /cast Arcane Power
      /cast icy veins
      /use 14
      /cast arcane blast

      Keep in mind that your CD on AP is shorter than the CD on ToR. You’ll always want to use ToR with another cooldown to get the best use of it.

  • Brillante says:

    Thanks for this article! I have a couple of questions about trinkets that you haven’t mentioned yet:

    Where does Spark of Hope fall in your trinket rankings for an arcane mage? I’m currently using Spark of Hope and Abyssal Rune on my mage, trying to decide if I should replace one of them with ToR.

    Also, I just got Shiny Shard of the Scale last night (nobody else rolled on it). If I ever manage to get Shiny Shard of the Flame, how would that combo stack up to other trinkets?

    • Metaneira says:

      Again, you should really use a program like Rawr to calculate the effectiveness of a trinket given your particular talent build, gear, and raid buffs. I very much dislike making best-in-slot lists since what’s best for you may not be for someone else, given their gear. Given access to everything in the game, yes, I can tell you what the best item is for each spot, but people are limited by drops, loot systems, reputation, progression, etc.

      Spark of Hope, however, is, um, crap. Spirit is a tiny amount of regen and a tiny amount of crit. Mana shouldn’t be an issue for arcane mages: just adjust your rotation if you’re having mana concerns. Definitely upgrade ToR.

      The Ony trinkets are also crap. There’s a lot of shitty caster trinkets in the game, imo.

      • Brillante says:

        The reason that I like Spark of Hope is that it reduces all of my mage’s mana costs by 19% (the savings on the base arcane blast cost). Since my mage has 2-piece t9 and glyphed molten armor, I also get 70 crit rating from it, in addition to 50% in-combat regen on the 100 spirit. This basically means that my mage can go twice as long between evocates, so I’m not wasting 8 seconds regenerating mana when I could be dpsing. It also means that my mage can maintain a 4-stack arcane blast stack for significantly longer, which seems pretty important for burn phases. That seems like a pretty amazing trinket, but I know that eventually it will be eclipsed by something else — I’m just trying to figure out what that something else is.

        Regarding the Ony trinkets, they (as a set) provide 250 spellpower, 96 mp5, 576 hp5, and a 3192 dot that procs about once per minute (worth about 53 dps). I’m just really having trouble seeing how ToR surpasses them. Am I missing something significant?

  • Krazytoast says:

    Hello there!

    First of all, thanks for the representation of CC female mage (that are actually female IRL). I wandered over here from wow.com and love the site so far and it’s great to see it written by some familiar names.

    Second, I have been debating with my wonderful Rawr about the Dislodged Foreign Object. Has anyone had a chance to equip one and test it out against the Abyssal Rune? As stated in the article, it looks good on paper, but I’m not sure on the overall performance and question Rawr’s low ranking of it.

    Second, I go FFB for a couple of fights and have Abyssal Rune and Talisman of Resurgence. I also have an Eye of the Broodmother sitting in my bank. Would it be worth it for me to use that trinket for those fights instead of the talisman and Abyssal Rune?

    Thanks and keep up the great work!
    Krazy

    • Krazytoast says:

      I couldn’t edit, but I need to learn how to count on how many points I make :-) .

    • Metaneira says:

      As I say in the post, DFO has yet to be modeled correctly in Rawr. (I haven’t checked for a Rawr update recently, though — not much point since I don’t have a DFO and likely never will with my guild’s trinket luck.) If you just estimate the proc, though, it looks to be better than both regular and heroic Reigns. If it drops in your raid, bid all your DKP on it, equip it, and worry about the math later.

      For FFB, yes, ditch the Talisman in favor of Broodmother.

      Cenarion Circle REPRESENT!

      • Yaqar says:

        Cenarion Circle representing. ;)

        I honestly don’t understand why people thing that the Fetish/Talisman of Volatile Power is good for mages. In my first ToC10 run the Fetish dropped and I considered rolling on it but realized in that several-second window where I could roll that it was probably not very good. I hear it doesn’t suck as much for other classes, but it seems apparent that there won’t, overall, be much of a DPS increase from that trinket in any mage spec.

  • Malacki says:

    Ok, I know the talisman of resurgence is rated very high in rawr, however through my own experimentation it lost a lot of DPS. I run with 2 trinkets the Abyssal rune and the Dying Curse, both of which have a chance proc on them which both of them will proc maybe 2 times inside that 2 minute cooldown on the talisman of resurgence. Being that the weekly was Patchwork 2 weeks in a row my static 10 man which contains all the same people every week went and did him.

    Using the talisman I only got an overall 7800 DPS and spiked at 9000, by spiked I mean bloodlust clicking the abyssal etc stacking everything I had.

    Removing the talisman and going back to my procing trinkets. My Overal DPS was just over 9000 and spiked 12,000 and had the tank crying because I was making him work hard to keep up.

    Now I am tempted to change to some of the ice crown trinkets but that Talisman and its 2 minute cool down I have to disagree with Rawr,

    • Metaneira says:

      That’s all well and good, but how many fights in progression raiding last fewer than two minutes? Yes, Patchwerk used to be our test of DPS, but the fights that we encounter now last much, much longer, allowing you the use of a trinket two to three times.

      You can adjust for the length of a fight in Rawr, and, yes, maybe for a two minute long fight AR+DC works better. However, I’m raiding T10 content, not T7, and thus it’s better for me to have a trinket that is effective for long fights or for fights that require periods of intense burst.

      • Malacki says:

        We went to ICC after as well as usually and depending on fights I was 500 to 1000 dps less with the talisman than the other two. With the talisman, about every 2 minutes if your paying attention you get 599 more spellpower thats it. Where the abyssal typically goes off a couple times in that 2 minutes, adding 590 spellpower. The chance is 25% ever 45 seconds, and it is typically going off once a minute easy. The Dying curse procs just as often and increases spellpower by 765 and quite, 15% ever 45 seconds, often you get other procs stacking, lightweave etc, like I said this is through my own experimentation. Rawr has always steered me in the right path except for this one trinket. It rates the talisman higher however I find the talisman actually lowers my DPS. According to Rawr the Talisman is only a 20 dps point improvement over the Abyssal rune and a 99 point improvement over the dying curse in a 5 minute fight, yet in all honesty real world scenario I find it to be about a 500 dps decrease. I do not think rawr takes into consideration the movement and the running around of the fights, like morrowgar for example, I have hit my burst macro only to find myself up on a bone spike for half of it, or stopping to get out of the fire when you only get that proc once every 2 minutes and you lose it then it is lost. With the Abyssal and the Dying curse you might loose one proc but it is going to proc again, and again, heck they may proc while you are getting out of the fire.

        Kind of like the twin Valk in ToC, I am constantly over 10k dps in that fight and get empowered at least 3-4 times, lots of movement and trinkets going off even when balls hit you.

        I guess if you are just going to sit there and cast tank and spank, 1 proc every 2 minutes timed with everything else probably is going to be ok. However I did see a decrease with patch. However longer fights and the movement and interruption, snobold on your back, getting out of the fire, gettin paralytic toxin, etc, 20 seconds standing still in most fights today really don’t happen a lot. Where having a 10 second burst every minute or 45 seconds is a lot more practical. Eh, my opinion and observation.

        • Malacki says:

          I just reran Rawr and set it at a 10 minute fight, Morrowgar enrage timer, and the Talisman dropped well below the Abyssal, and only a 20 point increase over the Curse.

  • gilby says:

    I don’t care what rawr says, i’d rather have abyssal any day, I have NEVER been out damaged by an arcane mage wearing that int(what r u, a healer?) trinket. Not ever. >.>

  • Heinous Bitca says:

    What trinkets should frost mages be going for?

  • Kasey says:

    My mage is currently rockin’ the Abyssal Rune and Talisman of Resurgence.. she did, however, win the Nevermelting Ice Crystal and I was wondering if I should replace the Abyssal Rune with it? I heard it was BiS before ICC10/25? :)

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